For today’s episode, we chat with Keith Hagan, a longtime manager who had worn many different hats within his career in music, including stints at record labels, as a publicist, and ultimately, coming together in artist management. Keith currently is VP Management at MNRK Music Group based in New York.

Keith takes a very strategic approach with his artists, which allows for a lot of creativity and intent within their careers.

We cover all of that, and a lot more, in our conversation.

For today’s episode, we continue to veer off script and join my friend Dick Huey for a chat.  

While Dick started out as a musician, then an artist manager, before wisely pivoting over into digital marketing, at the dawn of digital media in music, his fierce advocacy of artists and their rights, mirrored with supporting independent labels as they entered the digital landscape provides for many illuminating stories and perspectives, having worked on initial digital campaigns for Sufjan Stevens and Arcade Fire, to name a few. 

Dick’s company Toolshed has evolved into business development work, supporting many new and emerging companies, touching on AI and music analytics.  We cover all of that, and a lot more, in our conversation.

For today’s episode, we’re once again going off script and chatting with someone who, while not a manager, is someone who is an ally to artists and their quest to find an audience and make meaningful connections.  

I was lucky enough to be connected with today’s guest, Ken Weinstein, right as he was starting Big Hassle Media with fellow publicist Jim Merlis.  I’ve always admired Ken’s ability to advocate for artists from an authentic and natural place.  His passion for the artists he works with shows through, and it’s an impressive list that includes many long-standing relationships, such as with Jack White and Third Man Records, as well as My Morning Jacket, and so many more.  We get into a variety of topics, circling back around to the need for storytelling for artists, and how a publicist can support that narrative. 

• For today’s episode, I’m thrilled to get a chance to chat with Piers Henwood of Amelia Artists.  Piers started out as a musician, playing in the band Jets Overhead before, as so many artist managers eventually end up doing, crossing over to the dark side of artist management.  All kidding aside, Piers’s vantage point on management is uniquely rooted in his time as a musician; informing his business endeavors in Amelia Artists and Recordings.  He also had the good fortune of working with Tegan & Sara for the first 20 years or so of their career, gaining valuable insight from mentors such as Elliot Roberts.  Those experiences are some of the many stories and perspectives he regularly shares through his writing and on his blog.  We’re fortunate to have him for a sliver of time to discuss all this together today.

For today’s episode, I had the pleasure of collaborating with the Music Managers Forum – UK, in celebration of their 30th anniversary as an organization, creating community and acting as advocates for managers on a large number of important policies.  

One of their early champions was Paul Crockford, who we speak with today.

Paul has had a rather illustrious career, first as a promoter, then begrudgingly, at first, as a manager.   One of his first clients was Tears For Fears.  He now looks after Mark Knopfler, of Dire Straits fame.  He was also a key player in organizing the series of benefit concerts for The Prince’s Trust, including many of Britain’s legendary artists, such as Paul McCartney, Phi Collins, David Bowie, and countless others.

For today’s episode, I get the chance to chat with a friend of mine, Josh Sundquist at Middle West Management, who just so happens to manage one of the biggest indie artists of the last several years, Justin Vernon, and his project Bon Iver.  

We chat about his origins at the start of Middle West Management, and how his critical role in developing Bon Iver into an area/amphitheater act.  Everything Josh and his team do with Bon Iver has so much thoughtfulness and intention behind it.  They’ve carved out their own path together, and one that is to be admired and from which we all can learn as well. 

For today’s episode, we have a first in Tough Love history:  Not just one, but two distinguished guests:  Ail Hedrick and Erik Selz, from Arrival Artists. 

Co-founded with a coalition of booking agents in the wake of the pandemic, Arrival Artists heralds the return of the boutique booking agency, after years of consolidation within that area of the industry.  With a rich and diverse musical roster, ranging from Andrew Bird to Sufjan Stevens, we chat about Arrival’s beginnings,  Ali and Erik’s approach to working with artists, and the challenges and opportunities born out of the pandemic.  

I hope you enjoy and get as much out of this conversation as I did. 

As we enter a new year, I thought we’d refine some aspects and the overall approach to what we’re doing here with this podcast.

When I first envisioned this, I thought taking a seasonal approach to it would work best, coming up with topics such as “Origin Stories” and “Pivots”, but as it began to unfold, I’ve come to realize that each artist manager’s store is so unique and inspiring in its own right, that it’s best to let the discussion dictate the overarching theme.

So, moving forward, we’ll forgo the seasonal approach and do just that, let the stories take us where they may.

To kick us off, I’ve invited a friend and former colleague of mine to join us today:  Hannah Boren.  As I mentioned at the top of our chat, I first encountered Hannah when she was a student at Belmont University in Nashville, and she became our first intern at NoiseTrade, a music discovery platform I used to run.  Her talents and intuition were evident even at this early stage, so I’m beyond thrilled that she’s excelled in becoming an artist manager, working with another dear friend of ours, Aaron Sawyer, at Red Light Management.  I’ll let Hannah share the rest of her journey, as we dig in.

As in life, seasons change, and life gets the best of us at times, so my apologies for the unscheduled break in new episodes these past few months, but as we revamp and begin to record new, future episodes, I thought it would be nice to revisit a few of our favs as we approach the end of the year.  

One of the joys of doing this podcast is the excuse it often provides for me to catch up with old friends, and getting to learn more about their own history and start in the industry.  Tom fits this bill to a tee.  I really enjoyed this conversation and I hope you do as well.

We’ll be calling this series “Encore” and I’ll be posting a few more in the weeks to come, followed but new episodes in Jan. 2022.  

I appreciate you listening and I hope you get as much out of these revisited conversations as I do.  

In this episode, we have the pleasure of chatting with Michelle Cable, founder of Panache Management.

Panache started out as a zine, which lead Michelle into promoting shows, then booking shows, on a national scale, and then eventually into artist management; working with artists such as Mac DeMarco, Ty Segall, Rodrigo Amarante, and King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard.

We chat about Michelle’s series of pivots and how they were more of an evolution than a shift in direction, and the many elements that tie it all together.

In this episode, we chat with Laurel Stearns.  I first met Laurel when she was doing A&R at Capitol Records, having signed such interesting and eclectic artists such as The Decemberists and Fisherspooner.  She pivoted into artist management over the years, working with a wide range of artists including GWAR and Father John Misty, eventually landing at Primary Wave where she currently manages U.S.Girls, Red Fang, and The Album Leaf, to name a few.  

We chat about the importance of staying true to your instincts, supporting music you’re passionate about, and being patient with the process of marketing music.

In this episode, we chat with Michele Fleischli. Michele has crossed paths with a handful of our previous guests and I really enjoyed the opportunity to connect with her here.  Michele currently owns Like Management, working with Tenacious D and Karen O of the Yeah, Yeah, Yeahs, among others.  

Throughout her history, she’s worked with an array of amazing talent, including Bad Religion, Rage Against The Machine, Sonic Youth, and Beck, to name just a few.  We cover a lot of that history, but we also touch on her interest in creating unique and memorable moments with artists, such as Rage’s pop up performance at the Democratic National Convention in 2000 or Beck’s “Song Reader” Book, a collection of songs only available in sheet music form. 

In this episode, we talk with Justin Becker, founder of Murmuration Music.  Prior to stepping out on his own, he worked at Ekonomisk Management with Andrea Troolin, where he helped steer the careers of artists such as Andrew Bird and Margot and the Nuclear So and So’s.  

We chat about the many challenges, and opportunities, that were born out of the pandemic, and how the need for community offered a path to new creative endeavors.  Justin currently represents Alex Lahey, Bayonne, Okkervil River, Sondre Lerche, and Tift Merritt.

In this episode, we connect the dots with our last episode, where I spoke with Jordan Kurland of Brilliant Corners by chatting with Justin Little of Bailey Blues.

Justin worked with Jordan at the start of his career.  After another stint with Ben Dickey at Constant Artists, he settled in at Bailey Blues, managing The Midnight and working with K Flay, Donna Missal, Your Smith and Jake Etheridge.

We discuss the importance of making connections early in your career, and how that philosophy can also play out for artists as well, as is the case with The Midnight, who have fostered a unique relationship with their fans over the years.

With this past year as a backdrop, we discussed how the pandemic has created both challenges, and opportunities, for artists and artist managers.  Several of the Brilliant Corners artists were able to adapt to the changes in creative ways, and Jordan himself found time to reignite his passion for supporting Biden in his bid for the White House last year as well.  We also touch on our joint love of jazz, and in particular, Thelonious Monk.  

In this episode, we chat with Nick Stern of Stern Management. 

Nick got his first taste of the music industry at age 15, interning at an indie record label, Zero Hour.  From there, he gained more experience working as a publicist at Atlantic Records, before pivoting into the world of artist management with his first client, Clap Your Hands, Say Yeah.  Today, Nick works with The Black Angels, Phosphorescent, Phantogram and Metric, to name a few.

We chat about the importance of building lasting relationships at an early stage in your career, and how chance meetings can lead to big opportunities.

In this episode, we shift gears a bit and explore the world of film/TV composers with my friend Tim Husom, who’s Redbird Music represents some of today’s top composers, including Dustin O’Halloran, Colin Stetson and the estate of Johann Johansson, to name a few.  

We discuss how his early days managing indie rock and electronic bands, married with the economic downturn of 2008, inspired him to lean into film and TV opportunities for his artists, which lead to his unique path towards redefining Red Bird as a home for orchestral, ambient and avant-garde music.  His artists have won and been nominated for Academy Awards, Golden Globe Awards, Critics Choice Awards, Emmys, BAFTAs and Grammys.  

I hope you enjoy my chat with Tim

In this episode, I share a spirited conversation with my friend Tom Osborn, the GM of Easy Eye Sound, a record label founded by Dan Auerbach of The Black Keys.

We chat about Tom’s history in marketing at several labels, including his time at Artist Direct, one of the first label services focused companies, on through stints at Anti-, New West and how he found his way to Easy Eye Sound, which ties together his philosophy and viewpoint of how artists can both carve out and create a lane for themselves.

For our first episode of 2021, I’m excited to share a lively and inspiring conversation with Lazerbeak, member of the hip-hop collective Doomtree, GM and manager of Doomtree, Heart Bones, solo artist and musical collaborator and producer of Dessa, among others.  Beak wears a lot of hats, and juggles them all in fine form.  

We chat about that juggling act, switching between his artistic endeavors while balancing business.  We also discuss his early years in an indie rock band, his entry point into making beats and transitioning over into hip-hop with Doomtree, and how those relationships opened doors to work with Lizzo and, with Dessa, the Minnesota Orchestra.  

We go deep and into a bit of overtime, but it’s a fun journey and I hope you stick through it with us until the end.

To round out 2020, we thought it would be fun to compile a collection of our “Lightning Round Questions” which we first introduced at the top of this season.  Think of it as a list of some of our “Favorite Things”.  

We hope you enjoy revisiting these with us and thanks, as always, for listening in!

To give you further context, here’s a list of our “Lightning Round” Questions:

• What’s the first album you ever bought?
• What’s the first concert you attended?
• What’s the last concert you attended?
• Can you share a recent music discovery of yours?
• What do you enjoy the most outside of music?

President of Rounder Records

Today we continue our series on “Pivots”, breaking our long tradition of speaking only to artist managers by inviting in an outsider, the President of Rounder Records, John Strohm.   

While never “officially” an artist manager himself, he’s had the opportunity to work with a wide range of amazing talent throughout his various roles within the music industry, first as an artist and musician himself, as a member of Blake Babies and The Lemonheads, then as the attorney for some of today’s most successful and influential indie artists, including Bon Iver, Dawes, Phoebe Bridgers, Alabama Shakes, and Sturgill Simpson, to name but a few.  

Over the course of our conversation, we touch on the importance of having mentors to guide us, how it often only takes one artist to change the trajectory of your career, and how ascertaining an artist’s goals and aspirations can often differ depending on the role you play in their career. 

Today we continue our series on “Pivots”, but for this episode, we’ll be speaking with someone who shifted out of his role in A&R and into artist management.

Joel Mark, a partner in YMU Group, now manages The Faint, Soul Asylum, Liz Phair and the John Coltrane Estate, among others, but before that, he signed artists as diverse as Creed and Sigur Rós.

In our chat, we touch on how diversity inspires ideas, and how chance detours often lead to new opportunities.  

Thanks for listening and I hope you enjoy my conversation with Joel.

Today we continue our series on “Pivots”, chatting with managers how have, at one point or another in their career, veered into or out of artist management, and how their experiences as an artist manager speaks into the work they’re doing now.  

When I was brainstorming on a new series topic, my guest today, Caren Kelleher, was towards the top of my list of folks I wanted to chat with, as she’s reinvented herself a few times in her career, and, as our conversion revels, her passion for supporting artists is a constant anchor throughout. 

Today, Caren owns and operates one of the nations premier vinyl pressing plants, Gold Rush Vinyl, based in Austin, TX.  We’ll chat how she got there, along with the other various twists and turns along the way. 

I hope you enjoy my conversation with Caren. 

Today marks a new chapter, or rather, season, of Tough Love.  We’re moving beyond our first season theme of “Origin Stories” and embarking on a theme, “Pivots”. 

To kick this off, I invited my old friend and former colleague from Nettwerk Management, Michael Corcoran , to join me.  Michael is now at mtheory, an “artist management services” company of sorts, that amplifies and assists artist managers in marketing and developing their artists. He started his career out as a tour manager, before becoming an artist manager, where he worked with a wide array of various artists, including Jars of Clay, Alexi Murdoch, Alison Krauss, and Rosie Thomas and Landon Pigg, who we co-manged together at our time at Nettwerk.

 Michael’s career arc had him circling artist management throughout, and his insights into the business have become more refined now that he’s on the other side of the equation. 

For the close of our first season, centered around our them of “Origin Stories”, we flip the script as I take the interview seat, with our newest member of the Tough Love family, Greg Dobiahl, taking over and slinging the questions my way.  Greg did a fantastic job, and let’s just say I like it on the other side of the table, but it’s our hopes that this episode helps give some insights into my experiences as a manager and as a reference point of sorts from which I come from in the various conversations with fellow managers in other episodes.

We hope you enjoy it as we look ahead and turn a new page soon with season two, which we’ll launch soon, turning our attention to “Pivots.”  Thanks as always for listening!

Today we speak with Mark Cunningham from Red Light Management.  I got to know Mark when he was a Aware Records/A-Squared Management early in our careers, and worked closely with him while at NoiseTrade supporting Brandi Carlile earlier in her career. 

We chat about his time at Aware, how he became a manager, and how much we both miss live music during the pandemic.  I find Mark to be one of the most passionate and articulate managers I’ve had the pleasure to work with, and I hope you enjoy our chat together.   

Today we speak with Christian Roreau, artist manager at Thirty Tigers, one of the leading independent distribution and management companies.  

Christian started out as a journalism major at NYU, spent some time fronting a band before settling down in Nashville and landing at Thirty Tigers.  Like so many others, artist management wasn’t a career path of choice as much as an opportunity that presented itself.  His time nurturing the careers of artists as diverse as Trampled By Turtles and Lizzo give insight into the need to be open to possibilities and leading from the heart. 

I hope you enjoy my conversation with Christian.

I was thrilled when Hannah reached out and offered to come aboard and join me for this latest episode.   

Even though we taped this prior to the Coronavirus pandemic, a big portion of our conversation centered around working from home, which is timely for most of us now.  We also chatted about where we find inspiration and how we anchor our work in an effective manner, all of which is timeless advice.  

I hope you enjoy our chat and thanks for listening!

To learn more about Meru, click here.  

In this episode, I’m thrilled to have my dear friend Ben Weber on for a chat.  We’ve been friends for over 20 years now, but I learned a lot about Ben’s background working for a variety of labels prior to carving out his career as an artist manager.  Currently working with Nada Surf and Jesse Terry, we also discuss the challenges of reinventing new ways to engage with (and find) new fans when audiences attention spans are razor thin.  

Olivia Artist Management

I really loved my chat with Erin Anderson.  I’ve had the pleasure of working with several of her artists over the years at Olivia Management, and I’ve always been impressed with her taste and work ethic.  

One of the things I love about doing this podcast is that it gives me the opportunity to really dig in and get to know artist managers I admire on a deeper level.  In our conversation, we discuss the trails and tribulations of not only becoming an artist manager, but also how you choose the artists you work with, and what it means to nurture them, even with the relationship changes or evolves.  

I hope you enjoy this episode and thanks, as always, for continuing to listen. 

Link


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In this episode, I chat with an old, dear friend of mine, Hugo Vereker.  

Hugo’s been managing artists since the late 70s, having had early experiences with the likes of Michael Jackson, among others.  He’s an artist himself first and foremost, and as such, one of the most energetic and creative managers I know.  

I hope you enjoy our spirited conversation as much as we did.  Sometimes being a manager means wearing many hats, and I can honestly say, Hugo wears all of the well.

In this episode, I chat with Joanne Setterington, founder of Indoor Recess Management, and manager for The Strumbellas.

Starting out her career as a publicist in Canada, Joanne (like so many of us do) found herself drawn into management by accident.  Her history as a publicist serves as a great backdrop to her approach and style as an artist manager.  Listen in as we discuss her unique history and grounded outlook on what it means to be an artist manager. 

I hope you enjoy our discussion, and you can find out more about Indoor Recess here.

In our first episode, I chat with an old friend of mine, Edward O’Day.  

Edward, along with his partner Brad Talley, founded Project Daybreak to support a certain type of artist.  We dive deeper into what defines the artists they work with, how the music of Edward’s youth helped shape that perspective, and how, even with a clear view, the landscape of artist management can be hard to see from afar.  

I hope you enjoy our discussion, and you can find out more about Project Daybreak here.

Caroline Rose

Being an artist manager often requires a lot of tough love.  

That’s why I’m calling this deep dive into artist management Tough Love:  Adventures in Artist Management.

Enjoy this teaser episode which lays out the approach I’ll be taking with this initial season.

And look for our first episode to land soon.

Thanks for listening!